18xx terminology. I love auctions. 18xx terminology

 
<cite> I love auctions</cite>18xx terminology  Wheel Tapping did an 18Chesapeake playthrough last week with mostly outstanding players that demonstrated standard tactics for 1830-ish games well, and there's the famous fast 1846

18xx is the collective term used to describe a set of railroad-themed stock market and tile laying games. Pay attention. 60 votes, 19 comments. You can actually play a game of 1830 to try it out before buying the board game, which goes for $70+ right now. The GNOME Project is a free and open source desktop and computing platform for open platforms like Linux that strives to be an easy and elegant way to use your computer. is an 18xx on which the "track building" (the game is actually rethemed to a nautical setting) is far simpler both in terms of routes and calculation of its values. Late game people will just snatch up good shares for cheaper. I really enjoy 1829 Mainline solo, but it probably only contains about 50% of the multiplayer 18XX experience. 1830 was recently reprinted by Lookout games and is widely available and relatively cheap (same price as 1846, more or less). So this do detract a bit from the enjoyment which means I will lower this 18xx a bit. About; Features; Pricing;Depending on player count, 1846 will have 4-7 companies available. However, at present, I am not sure that I have a Puffing Billy conductor. About a year and a half ago, I wrote a blog titled “The case to make a game open for print-and-play”. Players compete to control railroads while. A discussion popped up this morning about Slack and it's use in 18xx games. Train game. This is to be assumed in everything written below. At least, this is the terminology used in most 18xx games. Bruno Kristensen. Con: Welcome! We would love to teach you! Feel free to post in the comments or join a teaching game. I assume you were taught by someone who knew the game because the rules for 1862 are fairly complicated. Look, these games aren't bombs or guru meditations or transdimensional hyper-calculus. Thanks for the kind words Toby! It's been great fun to work on this and it's amazing to see how far it's come! I'm excited to keep working on it, and hoping I can use it to get some more people to play 18xxPound for pound, 1830 remains one of the best games in the series. 18xx is about being a jerk. It is common advice to new players that “when in doubt, push the trains”. Tip. [EXTERNAL] [18xx] Do any 18xx titles allow Corporations to purchase rivals' stock? beardbruce77 #47422 . When starting a game, communications should be off-forum, by geekmail and/or email. The 2 things that make the 18xx genre to me are a) route/network building and b)stocks and shares. Board18 (main server: is basically a website that allows players to share maps and stock markets. Train Tuesday. If there are any Marines here who can tell me what being in the 18xx occfield is. 1830 is the original 18xx title designed by the father of the genre Francis Tresham (along with 1829, which I don't think anyone plays). Yet, it's a fun thought exercise. The privates are different in 18USA and you randomly select 15 of the 30 to use each game, but the. Aggressive stock-trashing will see companies that started at 100$ reduced to 67$ or even lower, punishing your rivals. I'm playing my first round of 1830 with some folks, we paused and saved things to pick up in a few days. 11/12/19 #47175. The game has 13 corporations, up to 10 of which may be in play, with 'concessions' to determine who may start which companies distributed in a start-packet system. Once you learn and explore the system, they both have enough to come back to for years for experienced & beginning players. c1_18xx (@c1_18xx) on TikTok | 60 Likes. Free Sexy Videos. Jan 24 Newbie 18XXer here with a newbie-ish question. Though, like Detective Nick Curran before him, Glass is entranced by Tramell and lured into a seductive game. ago. In 18xx, one of the primary tools for players to manage one another is the train roster. 1877 is in playtesting on 18xx. 18xx PC: stock ownership and track building -> CE: stock ownership, track building, dividends, bidding -> B&O stock ownership, track building, dividends, bidding, train purchasing, route running -> 18xx: all of that and the rest too!A game tracing the development of railways on the Isle of Wight, 1860 is part of the 18xx series of economic railway games, based on Francis Tresham's original concepts. 18xx: A Timeline. Convivial Society. Experience has shown that at a low player count, this is a “run good companies” game. 18xx. Renown for the megarust when. 1830, set in the northeastern United States, is probably the best-known game of the series, though not the earliest. The railway history of both Switzerland and Austria can be explored in 1844/1854, two previously self-published designs — both based on the 1829 (aka 18xx) game system created by Francis Tresham — that have been thoroughly revised for this new edition. The #1 Reddit source for news, information, and discussion about modern board…The reason I ask is this past weekend I was at Origins 2023. The game uses most of the rules from 1817 and requires a copy of 1817 to play. Happy Tuesday, r/boardgames ! This is a weekly thread to discuss 18xx games, which are a family of economic train games consisting of shared ownership in railroad companies. Square 9. I agree that it is a problem if seating order is the determinate, but I've usually found that seating order is not the problem, rather player's addiction to running companies. This is not standard terminology, but it was the best thing. Such concept is hard because general Euro games forbids it in terms of design, and most importantly a no-catch-up efficiency game. Looking for a place to get away from it all? This 40 acres has it all. 19, 2021) I was curious to see the top ranked 18xx games according to BGG and decided to throw this data in a GeekList with some additional details. you. Games with permission from their respective designers and/or publishers. 18AL. In addition to playing well at 3 players and in a relatively short amount of time, it’s also a really exciting game with a lot of situational decisions and trying to. Stock-trashing is a vital part of 18XX. Deck builders don’t have a set naming convention. Having a way for a player to initiate a poll to end the game would be a really great feature, and would prevent one player from going rogue and nuking a game. Anon125 • 3 yr. 18XX by Flash House Brewing Co is a Porter - English which has a rating of 3. Fans of 18xx understand that these are expensive games, but because they also know how valuable the games are in terms of rich gameplay, they are willing to look past the high prices. It will take place July 6-9, 2023 in Des Moines, Iowa. I wasn't sure if there was already a dedicated 18xx Slack team so I went ahead and made one. Other 18XX games give only the cash for the shares as they are purchased, tightening the cash flow for the railroad until. Square 9. 3) Players create trade routes similar to railway lines in 18xx games. It looks at the advantages and difficult. Jul 18, 2017. The release of shorter versions like 18Chesapeake along with the. Probably 5 hours with a teach. When we play there's always a lot of jokes about the lack of regulation and what we are telling the shareholders of these poor bucket companies. [EXTERNAL] [18xx] Do any 18xx titles allow Corporations to purchase rivals' stock? beardbruce77 #47422 . I'm a bit surprised no mention of 1846, esp with the GMT version releasing soon and only $47 Click Here!. After the draft, you pay the list price for each company you drafted. Feel free to discuss anything about 18xx games that's on your mind. Age of Steam is about finding efficient ways to deliver limited goods over longer routes than your opponents. games is a free, open-source website for playing 18xx games. The comparison to 18xx is specious. closeThing is that money is VPs. io Subject: Re: [18xx] Question About Cert Limits During Emergency Money Raising I would tend to want to check the exact wording of the rules for the. See the description on BGG for more information. It has several unusual elements: There are no stock rounds. If you have never played an 18XX train game before, this would be an excellent place to start. Similar to “amorous congress,” this euphemism was a gentler term suitable for the upper classes to use, even if they only whispered it. Additionally, there are freight and passenger trains that can share track, which is helpful in the congestion. It packs an incredible punch into what may be the best intro to the series (with 1889 also getting props in that regard). In most 18XX games, the players effectively serve as the game timer—that is, decisions by the players keep the game moving along. . The larger map, extra trains, higher cert limit, and extra starting capital (for 5+ players) in 18USA makes it work a lot better at higher player counts than 1817 does imo. BGG Con 2023: Epic Games Meetups (and Mules) BGG Con 2023: Wargames, Meetups, and Mules. 7 out of 5, with 26 ratings and reviews on Untappd. . hello all you fellow gamers. 18CO: Rock & Stock is an 18xx game where three to six players compete to earn money and build the best stock portfolio by investing in and operating railroad Corporations within the state of Colorado. @Elf__Man. ) It has a great takeover mechanism (many games have these, but this is the best so far that I've seen) and a lot of variety in potential track building. 1829 has two versions, north and south. It's rules-wise 1817 but much shorter (thought gameplay-wise that isn't a particularly accurate description) Ledvolta • 2 yr. 'village'. The game is inspired by 1829 Mainline by Francis Tresham, and while the venerable Mr. An 18XX calculator to help with playing 18XX board games. 18 India is an operational railroad game for 2 to 5 people that plays in about 3 hours. io Subject: Re: [18xx] 18DO Kickstarter announced A) there is a difference and B) you're making a lot of assumptions that aren't necessarily true - that all my supplies and materials must inevitably come from China. From: 18xx@groups. At the end of the game the owner of this Train gets 18 points. An 18XX calculator to help with playing 18XX board games. BEST +18 & SEX MOVIE. See the DCO file for details. Players play the role of 19th century entrepreneurs investing in the construction as well as the financial and operational management of railways. 18 Los Angeles is an 18xx game that has lots of city hexagons packed into a small map, hopefully creating some congestion in rail traffic and. Real-time is possible due to instantaneous updates whenever players make moves and async is assisted with e-mail notifications. Sit. By choosing the player count, players can select the style of. Feel free to discuss anything about 18xx games that's on your mind. The game features 3 different train permits which are randomly distributed to the companies in the game. Right click on the project and select Build Configurations –> Set Active –> aop or boost based on the EVM. This information is intended to complement the 18xx Rules Difference List by providing details on what is included in these 18xx games. Jan 5, 2020. Only players in a given game may modify those objects (place tracks, move. Okay I know I want to be a Marine. 1846 is an 18xx game that traces the westward expansion of railways across the Midwestern United States. The players are seeking to make the most money by buying and selling stock certificates of eleven railroad companies. Buying a new 18xx game is (usually) not like buying an expansion map for Power Grid or Age of Steam. 1860 - Took what I love about 1825 and made it somewhat better (for me). I see a lot of talk about "lines" of games - for example. io] Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2022 04:02 PM To: [email protected] only one director is the managing director, which is (or was) the UK term equivalent to the US company president, and is the post referred to by 18xx games set in the UK. That said, some of what makes them hard is that the rules are so different than they are for most other 18xx games, so maybe coming in as your first 18xx game is actually easier than it is for people who played several other 18xx games before. 0. A Gugelhupf (also Kugelhupf, Guglhupf, Gugelhopf, and, in France, kouglof, kougelhof, or kougelhopf) is a cake traditionally baked in a distinctive ring pan, similar to Bundt cake, but leavened with baker's yeast. See the description on BGG for more information. The games have almost nothing in common, and very little overlap in terms of communities of players. For nearly 2 decades, 1889 has been considered to be the best introduction to the 18xx genre for its short playtime and simplicity to teach. 18XX is the generic term for a series of board games which recreate the building of railroads during the 19th century, since the individual games use particular. If you intend to use any title for your own use or on a different website, please contact the applicable designer and/or publisher for any necessary permissions. Time will tell which one sticks. Any kind of company selling goods or services could have the stocks and shares mechanics. 18Scan is a small game, in the style of Mark Derrick’s 'one-state' games 18GA and 18AL, and is intended as a change from the more robust 18xx. I would absolutely use the new-player friendly rules here. som original - 🎧. Feel free to discuss anything about 18xx games that's on your mind. My guide to 18xx, and specifically 1830. There's no such thing as a "perfect" or "ideal" 18xx game - 1846 remains one of my favorites and it is quite replayable, and it's probably a better starting point than most for a. Experience has shown that at a low player count, this is a “run good companies” game. To give you an idea of how niche these games are, the biggest publisher of 18xx games is All-Aboard Games. The 18xx genre adds a meta-layer to the traditional board game. The first…Within the 18xx world there are two major types of company capitalizations: full capitalization and incremental capitalization. could some of you fine people help find a game that fits this bill. Some 18XX games give 10 times the "par" value mentioned above, leaving the remaining shares in what's called an "IPO", or Initial Public Offering. Information on Individual 18xx Games. Each 18xx game is a little different but a common theme is that you run two companies, one is a bucket company that buys the trains and then sells them to the other for $1. Today, the estimated population barely reaches 1300. Just as a clarification depending on what you are looking for. Games with permission from their respective designers and/or publishers. Rank 2022-12-31: 3 (although it was up at #1 during most of 2022. 9. g. 18XX is the generic term for a series of board games that, with a few exceptions, recreate the building of railroad corporations during the 19th century; individual games within the series use particular years in the 19th century as their title (usually the date of the start of railway development in the area of the world they cover), or "18" plus a two-letter geographical designator (such as. You can support this project on Patreon. The app is 100% free (no functionality locked behind IAP). The scale is significantly smaller than many 18xx games, and the game includes both standard and takeover versions. 1841. At a higher player count, the game is more combative as share portfolios are more diverse and the hostile merger becomes a bigger factor in the game. Ultimately was good for a couple plays but just really pushed me into 18xx games proper. The auto transfer does cost money. And groups. My group plays a little of everything, we dont shy away from big chunky games. Designed, and originally published as 1839 by Federico Vellani, it is set in northern Italy. Step-by-step explanation: Given that; The expression . National companies can only operate within. 18xx is slightly different because it’s not just a genre but a game system, but I think it would be neat if someone. ). 1817 differentiates itself from other 18xx games with its sophisticated financial mechanics that simulate the laissez faire. The expression goes. The other main one that is mentioned is 1889. Players invest in railroad companies in an effort to have the greatest net worth at the end of the game. $5 - red - 75 chips. @Baragos. Don’t wait for 18DO! There’s 18xx goodness already available! 5 Likes. ago. It is useful to people who are already familiar with at least one such game, and are learning to play another. The author gives brief descriptions and his opinions of the games on the list. I think building off 1862's method of dead hexes and columned stock markets, could work in some 18xx games, I'm just not sure which ones since I have little experience with 18xx. 1. Because of the fact you can describe such a complex story for 18USA the tree concept is inherently flawed. e. 0. Co-Hosts Edward & Amanda of the show that focuses on medium/heavy strategy games, war games, & 18xx (train) games. In 89, it's part of the game. The latter doesn't get as much attention as the former but, then again, 1846 is from Mr. The 18xx are not bad first games, not bad at all -- for the. We prefer something that plays in the shorter side, maybe 4h or so, or comparable to 1860 and 1846. 18Africa - Took what I loved about 1829 Mainline and built a even better experience (for me). The average 18xx player won’t need more than three hundred chips to play most games. On 11/12/19 5:48 AM, Louis J Desy Jr louisdesyjr@. MLS# 202319453. I’m in a similar place. Legally buy cigarettes 3. Information on Individual 18xx Games. That is to say, if players wished to play two games with the same moves, the outcome would be the same also. This is not standard terminology, but it was the best thing that I could come up with for those games that were in between the. Fortunately, it’s not true. The name “18XX” is derived from the various titles of the games, which are named after different years in the 1800s. This is one of the longer 18XX. Glossary block A group or. Quite clever, really. 18XX is the generic term for a series of board games that, with a few exceptions, recreate the building of railroad corporations during the 19th century; individual games within the series use particular years in the 19th century as their title (usually the date of the start of railway development in the area of the world they cover), or "18" plus a two-letter. I believe that the 18xx group paid $110. This is determined by adding the cash holdings of the players to the value of the stocks each owns. Hotness Display Stats and Thumbnails List Games . The player with the most stock of a particular company in his possession acts as the president of this company and is responsible for track laying, the placement of railheads (which are. like to take over the Blackwater Station site for themselves. Mostly, I prefer full capitalization games (i. I've noticed that there are not a lot of 18xx titles out for print and play. Many Git commands accept both tag and branch names, so creating this branch may cause unexpected behavior. Map and Components pictured are from the 2013 LMN&B version. city One of the blob-shaped, or multiple-blob-shaped, places on the map, where station-markers can be. It was 18xx and 300. )1860 - Probably the most dynamic 18xx I know. Most of the people who I know that play 18xx don't play much Age of Steam. 31 votes, 31 comments. Home Hashtags About Features Pricing Updates Terms Help Twitter. 2038 - The game I learned. This document was created by the Linux Kernel community and is a simple statement that you, as a contributor, have the legal right to make the contribution. 18xx is the collective term used to describe a set of railroad-themed stock market and tile laying games. io has doubled the price now. 18xx games can be played quickly, you just need to make an effort to do it. The release of shorter versions like 18Chesapeake along with the ease of 18xx. 2. The game will cost about $2, but it's very well run and organized and people don't often resign in the middle of the game. Companies. Poseidon - actually harder to parse and grok then an actual 18xx game because of theme dissonance. Merging of companies will occur frequently and each game will evolve differently. You can play locally with hot seat mode without an account. This totals 14,825 dollars, pounds, etc. At the moment, it can only handle 1846 and 1889, but the code is setup to make adding others fairly simple. 1830Lummerland When the 5 train is bought a gugelhupf appears in hex B5, making this village worth 10 extra for the following OR. games is a website where you can play async or real-time 18xx games (based on the system originally devised by the brilliant Francis Tresham)! If you are new to 18xx games then Shikoku 1889, 18Chesapeake, or 18MS are good games to begin with. Category. This video describes the best 5 games to learn to play 18xx. We’re about 5 months out from the 3rd Annual 18DSM convention. Dan did not provide a count of 18xx; Discoking7 has around 60 plays of 1846 with approximately 600 plays across 18xx. Ease of iteration is of some importance to me, so I'd rather not have to fiddle with an image editor every time something changes. Also, there are quite a few people who like 1829 and 1829-like games with just two. Right click on the project and select Build Configurations –> Set Active –> aop or boost based on the EVM. [EXTERNAL] [18xx] Do any 18xx titles allow Corporations to purchase rivals' stock? beardbruce77 #47422 . The 18XX series has a reputation of being some of the most difficult board games you can play. Additional Information About 18XX Marble Valley Basin Rd, Addy, WA 99101. Pages in category "18XX" The following 6 pages are in this category, out of 6. 1880 also includes. For instance, In the first level, players learn how to build and manage routes. My spreadsheet did not want to run smoothly towards. Some standardisation of terminology has been done, mainly to. like company presidents became kings (of merchants?), but you as a player are the kings, and you. A few things to note: 18Ches is SellBuy. Poseidon "re-imagines" 18xx to a certain extent, using different theme and terminology. It has been what I have wanted to do since I was little, and now it is coming time for me to make good on that dream. Collusions seem like a part in 18xx it is very least discussed and applied in the history of 18xx plays, correct me if. 1. Mintiful • 7 days ago. Based on Francis Tresham's 1829, and more specifically inspired by Simon Cutforth's 1822: The Railways of Great Britain, this 18xx title features multiple auction. New players often fail to recognize when it is to their advantage to move the game along, because these decisions commonly impose some short-term pain as the price of a longer-term advantage. Jul 31, 2014. . It's pretty easy to find a copy to download for free. It seems to be well-respected and often suggested as a good intermediate 18xx. Engineering-heavy games, such as 1844 and 1880, typically reward creative route-building - and don't tend to incentivize punishing minority shareholders (by dumping the company, etc. 1846 ist ein 18xx-Spiel, das im Mittleren Westen der Vereinigten Staaten spielt. Hello, we are a group of players who lately enjoy 18xx more and more. There are four entry-level Special Forces Military Occupational Specialties, and your specialty will be decided based. My blog on writing game rules, with an emphasis on complex games such as 18xx. 3hrs to play is normal with people who have played 18xx a few times, it is unlikely to 3hr if you havent played 18xx before. consider 1828 map is very largely based on 1830, it would be interesting to print it as a variant map. 18xx. . Here are some reasons I like it, and some reasons why it's particularly good for new players: 1. The map is divided by national boundaries. David Frederick. Depending on the player number, 13 different railway companies are drafted equally between the players. We will deep dive and make them easier to understand so you can decide if its right for you! 25 AUG 2022; 18Korea - Do-Over! 18Korea - Do-Over! This time Tony and Chris sit down (in person!) to discuss 18Korea and its place in the "new. Some standardisation of terminology has been done,. I actually really like 18OE as a 2-player game. CUBE4ME / Rails on Boards Marcin Olempa Lenartowicza 41, Sosnowiec, Poland shop@cube4me. A series of board games about railroads and stock investment usually taking from 4-12 hours or longer and played by major nerds with long beards. The game length is estimated at 8-9 hours for an experienced. Still, a fun thought-puzzle of an 18xx. - Route calculator that supports multiple routes, route. I love graph construction. That means that player A would have to buy a share and wait until his next turn to sell. Hi, I have been recently strongly attracted to buying a very complex and deep game for 95% solo. games to quickly learn what you like! 8. The common route finding rules and value calculations are hard-coded, and game specific rules are configured by a set of JSON files (distributed in the package), which setup. While not one of my favourites, it’s one of the greatest entries in the franchise and the most influential. I thought about making the pnp for 1849 but since I own. See moreMost 18XX game titles start with a name like 18_ _, like 1889 (soon to be re-released as Shikoku 1889 ), 1861, or 1817. Reply. In the game, the players seek to make the most money by buying and selling stock certificates of up to fifteen railroad companies. Software for creating and running 18XX email games using Matthias Klose's postscript system. Here’s a nice guide on how to get started with 18xx. Corporations race to complete a route from the East to Salt Lake City. The solo play typically wouldn’t excite me much, but it’s sounds nice in the quarantine time. clarification Statement contradicting or obfuscating an earlier statement. The objective is to play solo with an AI, so Vassal and friends platforms does not count. I believe that the 18xx group paid $110. 18XX recommendations for newbies: 1861 (Russia): high production values (wood pieces. 18Chesapeake is 100% the best starter, but there is a good argument to be made it's value is mainly in teaching value. The style guide describes best practices for formatting and terminology. 18xx is traditionally a genre which takes dedicated investment, with standard playtimes in the 4hr-8hr range. Stocks and shares are easy to retheme. r/boardgames •. 18CH is a railroad-building and investment game set in the country of Chile, in South America. By choosing the player count, players can select the style of. io> On Behalf Of jar0157 Sent: Monday, June 01, 2020 11:32 PM To: 18xx@groups. (A little forum diving on BGG will find extensive discussion and analysis of my reasoning for that latter opine) I also echo the more general statements that the 18xx and both Age of Steam and Steam bear little relation to each. 18ches is the most available starter 18xx. Another in the 18xx series initiated by Francis Tresham's 1829, 1832 models railroad development in the southeastern United States during an era of consolidation. . 1880 is a big game with more than a few twists in the standard 18xx system. In 18xx, one of the primary tools for players to manage one another is the train roster. [email protected] is an 18xx prototype by Alex Rockwell that is designed to be similar to 1817 but without the "problems". 18XX is the generic term for a series of board games that, with a few exceptions, recreate the building of railroad corporations during the 19th century; individual games within the series use particular years in the 19th century as their title (usually the date of the start of railway development in the area of the world they cover), or "18. This is version 3-368 . 7/10/22 #50446. Basic Instinct 2 (2006) Novelist Catherine Tramell is once again in trouble with the law, and Scotland Yard appoints psychiatrist Dr. Theme is not too relevant but I've been eyeing a copy of for its brain burny puzzle solo and the fact that i really like trains! My question is for people with 18xx solo experience (I know the genre is not well known for solo at all) or specifically 1862. If successful, I'll do a more detailed geeklist later, pending my ambition levels. Any big 18XX fans here that would also recommend owning Age of Steam. In 18 India, those random elements are. 1873 Harzbahn is an 18xx variant set in the Harz mountain range in northern Germany. Users can control which EVM to build for by setting the Active Build Configuration as shown below. Through a simple ruleset, it captures the aggressive brand of capitalism that drove the development of American railroads. A train game or railway game is a board game that represents the construction and operation of railways. For flavors of 18xx, I feel like Chicago Express is the cheapest, easiest way to get a sense of the genre. Out of the box it supports 18Chesapeake and 1889, but it comes with a game editor to add support for more games. Artificial Intelligence (AI) Artificial intelligence (AI), is a term used to describe computers’ aptitude to mimic human abilities such as reasoning, knowledge representation, planning, learning, natural language processing, perception,. , the 1830 line vs. I will never be able to get this on the table with other players (), which is why I'm looking for other 18xx games that are soloable. Today, I am announcing that. [18xx] wrote: The 18xx yahoo group just went through the same situation a few weeks ago. 18xx is about being a jerk. Share your folder with the other players. For example, if you buy the Wave 5 bundle from All-Aboard Games, you will get five very different games. Today, the estimated population barely reaches 1300. Although it shares many traits in common with the other 18XX games, it has several unique features, such as: random selection of companies. These games all cover the financial and track. There are three MOS fields I am interested in. - Route calculator that supports multiple routes, route. Michael Glass to evaluate her. 18XX is a series of board games that revolve around the railroad industry. 1862 can also be played solo, which is unique in the genre. The decisions of you and your fellow players will not only determine how well you do, but will also determine what the nature of the game is. Our new game, Fromage, launched on Kickstarter today. Now, whether the players are 'expert' is tough to tell, but if you hang around the community you will see people who post many games, so they probably have a good idea of what's going on. games and currently available for purchase from AAG. Others start.